Category: Writers Block
Awhile ago, I wrote an essay called "Why I'm So Antidigital" in which I discussed why I don't like things with touch screens and the like and preferred things with more conventional interfaces. In this essay, I wish not only to explore my love of old technology but also to discuss my views on life in general. I put this in the Writers Block board only because it's an essay. Please feel to ask any questions which come to mind and/or to comment as you feel fit.
Ever since I was a child, I've loved old technology. I can remember being interested in things like wash boards and living without electricity from a very young age. Eventually, I scrapped the idea of going nonelectric, but mechanical things still fascinate me to this day. I can remember reading about the Industrial Revolution and how it changed things and would often wonder how said tasks were done by hand or with mechanical tools. I've also been interested in alternative sources of energy since high school. But it's important to stop here and explain something. As an adult, I never seriously wanted to go back in time and throw away all the modern conveniences of life. In fact, there are some, such as indoor plumbing, refrigeration, the telephone and the internet that I wouldn't want to live without, given the choice. I also know that things were much harder in the past, particularly for the blind and that there are some older items which simply aren't as good as their modern counterparts. But that shouldn't mean that just because something is old or made in the style of the past, it's automatically bad and should be discarded. As a matter of fact, the lack of knowledge on using some things I consider to be a dying art. Take the slate and stylus and even braille for that matter. It astounds me just how many blind people don't know braille! I don't know the number off the top of my head but it's far more than I ever thought. Since I learned it as a child, and am 27 at the time of this writing, to put things into perspective, I thought it was the same across the board. On the other hand, I was surprised to learn just how many people use the slate and stylus. At first, I actually thought that this was obsolete and wouldn't be practical today. Yet it always fascinated me and so I resolved to teach myself. Now I'm fairly proficient at it and even have a decent speed. More importantly, I learned that just because I have my computer, BrailleNote and Perkins braillewriter, that doesn't mean that the slate and stylus isn't needed. I've often found that I can bring it with me anywhere and silently take notes without worrying if something spills on it or if I have a battery outlet. Many old things, I believe, are like that but few have the patience or the interest to learn them. Yet some of these could prove extremely useful in situations where there is no electricity due to a power outage or a natural disaster. While I don't follow any of the conspiracy theories, 2012 is getting closer and I can't help but worry about it. That and the possibility of a mini ice age.
In any case, I like to keep things simple. From my clothing, to my home, to my technology. I'm not into bells and whistles, nor am I into art for art's sake. I like things that are functional and practical, and if they happen to look good than so be it. That doesn't mean that I have everything mismatched, just that I don't go out of my way to decorate etc. For me, simplicity isn't about pushing a button and getting the result. It's about a compromise between human and machine control, between fast and often superficial living and pure survival with no enjoyment of anything. I like things that I can easily understand and use, not ones that take pouring through manuals and not ones where I have little say in what's actually being done or a million options from which to choose. So I'll use a microwave, for example, but mine is the dial kind where you just set the minutes and walk away. I don't need 50 options on it in a touch screen interface that I then have to go about making accessible. The same holds true for my stove and for my television, though I now have Verizon Fios, which has far too many channels to even consider without going nuts.
In today's society of disposability, it seems that most things are made to be thrown away after a few years at best, either because a new and updated product will come out to take it's place or because it's so cheap that most people don't mind buying another of the same. But I don't operate on those principles. I'm extremely frugal, to the point where I sometimes debate with myself for days whether to buy something online or not. So naturally, when I do buy a product, in most cases, I want to insure that I'm making a wise investment, and while there are some new products with good quality, often times, there's an older one which does the same thing at a much cheaper price and which will last long enough to make it worth buying it over the new product.
Most people buy technology to cut down on labour. While I certainly can appreciate that, I don't mind doing extra work if the technology that I'm using is solid, does it's job well and costs less than the faster model or type of product. I realise that this is because I don't work and have a lot of time on my hands and this brings me to my next point. Most people today are so busy rushing to get the job done, right now, this minute, that they lose site of the important things in life. Many have children when they can't afford to take care of them, so instead of one parent staying home with the child, both work and then have to pay for daycare. Even those without children, many times, are so eager to climb the ladder of success that they have no time for their loved ones, for a homecooked meal, for the simple things in life. So they fill their time with quick fixes like MacDonald's, the mall and reality tv, thinking that this will satisfy them. For all I know, maybe it does. But I've never been the type for reality tv or modern trends. I prefer things of substance and with meaning. Life is for living not for merely existing. Granted, working at something isn't most people's idea of pleasure, but if you have nothing else to do, than what's the problem if you spend a little extra time to get the household chores done or wait that extra hour for a real dinner instead of popping something in the microwave? I'm not saying that I don't eat fast food or tv dinners, but I would never choose them over something made from scratch, with love and creativity. As a matter of fact, cooking is one of the few areas in which I love complexity and trying new things.
I don't have children or anyone for whom I'm responsible, so I have a far easier time when deciding what to do for a living. So I chose something which may be difficult to get into but which, I'm sure, will bring me great pleasure in the longrun. Most on here know that I'm talking about crafts. Many people have criticised me because these are so-called blind trades, and again, think that I'm living in the past or that I'll make other blind people look bad. But why, if I have the choice, shouldn't I do what I enjoy? Why should I be stuck on the phone or in front of a computer when I could make my living in a traditional trade, using my creativity and working with my hands? I've always wanted to do that, and now, I finally have the chance! And as I've said many times, if I seriously had to stop and think of how many groups I represent (blind people, women, 20somethings, smokers, Hellenic Polytheists, Greek patriots etc.) I would never do anything for fear that I might make one of them look bad. That's utterly ridiculous! Yet there are places with a slower pace of life, ones that still have things like general stores, soda fountains, houses with clothes lines hung on the porch or in the yard, people who make things by hand and friendly neighbours who know each other. Of course, they have their bad sides too, but I'd love to visit one someday just to see how they do things and handle the modern world.
When it comes down to it, I suppose that what I really want is a nice compromise between the past and the present. One of my motos is if it's not broken don't fix it. So it makes sense that you'll find a mixture of 21st and 20th and someday, maybe even 19th century stuff in my home. Hopefully, this has explained a bit of why I am the way I am and why I'm so stubborn when it comes to certain things. As I said before, feel free to comment.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I'm a Sagittarius. If you know anything about my sign, we're very stubborn by nature. *smile*
Miss/Ms/Mrs/ Tiffanitsa,
It's been awhile since one your essays
I have been given to read.
At this particular time, in these moments,
I've not read all this writing of your
way of thinking
At this time for
although day is a dawn
even before dawn, more so
late into the early night...
Well, grateful am I for your writing here
for gives to me
ideas to further think upon..
Did I say grateful..
Must be repeating myself
To some in a past that
had been a problemo
and well
you dear I have always found to be someone
easy to share with.
We may come in from various ways of life
considerations in various fields of
placement..
I remember your love
and I am thinking
I am still in communication with
the one
in a past/months ago..
So many change at times of
identies..
yet
With your style of writing it would be
most difficult to think that one other than
yourself i have talked with via
these Boards...
Well, [takes breath smile**]]
...well, i do remember your love of
the Study and Life Living of
if I remember correctly..
Greek..??
I shall soon go for now
and with many items to
continue upon thinking upon
Making an attempt of...
~ S I M P L I C I T Y ~
again... Hi!
and Greetings sweet be
to thee
If you will forgive me, I honestly don't believe that I know you, aside from reading a few of your posts here on The Zone. I would certainly recognise someone who writes so strangely, combining formality with such odd line spacing. *smile* But yes, I definitely love Hellenic things. One need only read my profile or spend a small amount of time with me to learn that.
I agree with you to a point. Not this posting, but in general. I too am a person that enjoys simple, but I am also an incurable tech junky. Technology has made our lives as blind people a bit easier, and we can now keep pace with the general population. When it comes to this the older tech just isn’t accessible anymore, because things have moved on and being that we are such a small group there is no reason to keep older tech operational for our pleasure. Tech move on for a reason, and if you stop to think about it the older tech, such as Dos, left many things inaccessible to us even when it was new. For us it was very limited, so if we try to apply this tech today it is still very limited and even more so, even for the sighted user. New tech is actually less limiting at its current state. We can use a touch screen, a brand new iPad, iPhone, and computer. We can get on Facebook, shop and a host of other things. Back when Dos was available we even had to have a new computer modified to work for us, so how is it going to work now.
I believe if you went out more to stores and shops you’d learn that manufactures still make extremely simple products. Washing machines, microwaves, Telephones, you name it, have simple and fancy versions. This is a good thing for you, because the simple versions of products are often times the lowest costing. We do have the throw it away mentality, because often times it is cheaper to buy a new product then fix an older on, however quality products are still made. These are often times more expensive, so for many the investment is too high from the start. I too enjoy being able to fix my world, so my home is much like yours with simple things I can work on. I don’t even have a television, because I prefer to listen to music, or read a book, in braille even, not recorded. I want to take my book to the park, the coffee shop, and I don’t want to have to wear a headset to hear it outside or make sound. You are smart to realize you must, as a blind person embrace both worlds, but you must realize the work has not changed much in all things and that the simple can still be had new. No, you don’t have to buy all you use new, but if you buy older products you have to have the skill level, or money to modify your product so that it works for you, such as your new telephone. If you are financially cramped, as you say, why spend 100 dollars on making an old phone work when you could spend 10 and buy one that will probably last until you get tired of seeing it? Some shops sell phones with dials that are new tech, but made like a phone from the 20’s and will last you forever. Crafts are not a “blind” trade as you might think. Due to the economy many people earn their living doing this sort of thing. Just my thoughts. Smile.
I could still use my stove, my microwave, my tape recorders from the 70's and 80's and, if I could see, even my typewriter from 1912. I'm sure that, once I get it, I could also use my treadle sewing machine. So why would these technologies no longer be accessible? I'm not sure what you mean about having a computer modified for DOS. The only modifications that I've ever come across with that os are a screenreader, which is still necessary for Windows and Linux and a hardware speech synthesizer, which some still use with the modern systems.
The problem with many, though certainly not all, of today's simple products is that those are usually the ones made with lower quality. So even if I did go for the higher quality models, they would most likely be the ones with all the digital/modern accessories. Again, this is not true in all cases, and I know that if I really looked around, I could find some really decent things. I'm glad that you appreciate the simple things in life as do I, so we're on the same page. The telephone disaster came as a complete surprise to me. I was unaware of hard wiring and of the different connections in phones. I figured that, by the 70's, things were standardised. As it happens, I've actually become very interested in analogue telephone technology and the history of phone service in the United States as a result of this adventure. But this is the first time that I've ever had to modify old tech, aside from the usual stuff like putting markings on dials etc. So they still make simple phones, in America, with good metal parts which will last for years and which are actually cheap? I never thought that would be possible today. Most of the so-called retro phones only look old and use modern technology, even going so far as to have things like redial, call waiting (these two I don't mind), caller id, address books, answering machines etc. in them. Many are also built to look like rotery ones but are push button. Granted, I don't want a rotery phone as I think that really would be inaccessible. But if I did, I'd want the real deal, not some replica which doesn't even do the original justice. Of course, having modular jacks, ahem, is very helpful and desirable. *smile*
Crafts on their own aren't necessarily blind trades. But the ones which I'm considering, such as basket weaving, chair caning, broom making and soap making were taught to the blind at one time and so acquired the name. Many hve scorned me, as I've said, for bringing the blind backwards and other such nonsense. So you have no idea how appreciative I am that someone finally gets it and thanks for the encouragement! My vocational counselor also said that it's possible to make a living off such trades.
Also, if something works well for me, why should I upgrade it? It might make sense to eventually do so in the case of computers if you wish to use newer software, and sometimes, the internet itself. But it doesn't in appliances and other things.
If you could see you could use a typewriter? Excuse the hell outa me, I'm as blind as a bat, or an earthworm, or whatever ... stone blind, and that's *all* we had for many years. I didn't own a computer till 1993.
With the days of the typewriter, Braille writer, and horrid tapes, life was far more complex. I had to do a lot more figuring ahead of time, just to get from here to there, just to see that I could in fact participate in things. You're living in a dream world.
Technology is something not to be loved or hated, but well, they're just tools to get one or more jobs done.
And, whether we're talking the Agricultural Revolution of 10,000 or so years ago, the Industrial revolution in the 19th century, the travel revolution in the 1950s with highways and jet aircraft, we're talking innovative people who saw how much better things could be. A recurrent nightmare of mine is to be thrust back in time to the 80s with none of what I have now. I never knew what it was like to read a newspaper or look at content at the same time as a sighted person could. Any blind bat that is old enough to remember the before and after of the Internet, I sincerely think, we are modern examples of what it must have been like for people who lived around the time of the printing press: before then, the only books available to the masses were produced by an elite and given to them as the elite saw fit.
Sounds like some I can remember from growing up. And now, I can go to the Apple iBooks store and buy a title as soon as it's released.
As to Braille, sorry kiddo, but the problem there started with the horrid tapes, where you couldn't even tell how something is spelled. They foisted tapes upon us as often and as readily as possible: even math, where you had to copy it off the tape into Braille just so you could even look at it. At least with speech you can move your cursor over the word to verify how it's spelled. Not near as convenient as Braille, and I sure miss Braille on the go with my iPod Touch, but it does so much more, allows me to participate in so much more so readily, I'd be a fool to diss the thing.
That's silly: That would be like me refusing to use a pipe wrench on my daughter's bathroom sink when it leaked, simply because my ideals said I should somehow be able to manage it with my foreflippers, which you don't have to buy.
But, keep to your illusion if you must, just call it a luxury, that's what it is.
P.S.: I am the illuminati, I am the New World Order. We know where you are: not because we're tracking you, but because we just read all the backwards / pioneer blogs and watch you all geolocate from the neighborhood bunker.
Dec 21, 2012 is gonna be one grand ol' par-tay! BOOAHAHAHAHAHAH!
I don't mean that I couldn't type on one. Of course I can do that. What I meant is that I could use one with accuracy so that I would be able to tell things like when the ink ran low, when I made errors etc. Also, I generally wouldn't prefer a typewriter over a computer. It's just one of the things which I happen to own which is old and still works. As I've said, I don't shun all modern technology. I don't upgrade the minute something new comes out, but I'm still on an XP machine and on the internet, which wasn't available in the 80's. So it's not that I don't appreciate advances that have been made. It's just that, in certain cases, I prefer to use things which work better for me and which are simpler. I personally love records, tapes and mp3s, but they do ruin spelling as do screenreaders, though the latter, as you said, can be avoided if you go letter by letter. But who does that in most cases? This is why reading braille is so important. Unfortunately, it's very bulky and can get expensive and these other methods are simply easier. I'll be the first to admit that I fell, wholeheartedly, into the trap of relying on audio instead of braille. But I still use it for some things and if I had more books, I would love to just sit down one day and read a hard copy of one.
PS. As I said, I don't hold to conspiracy theories. But those people, myself not included, who really can live off the grid, who bought freeze dried food or who grow their own and who take the time to learn actual survival skills, will be the ones to prevail should something seriously happen in 2012.
The people who survive disasters are frequently not those who sit around ahead of time and horde / idealize: They are simply the ones who don't cling to old ways of life. They're the ones responsive to change.
For sake of argument: if we lost all electrical power - and this isn't gonna happen, sorry for those who fantasize about an easy way out of debt or responsibilities, I will say this: If we no longer had power and no longer had access to it, it is precisely the people you deride who would survive: people who don't cling to a prior existence but learn as they go and adapt to what's around. People who cling to old ways are either artificially maintained or just die out. Technology just lets us artificially maintain such people, even if they don't like technology.
Oh and as to spelling? I could only see how words written in the books I had access to were misspelled. Until the Internet, I didn't know, for instance, how the band the Beatles was spelled. Not because I was a Braille illiterate, but because I couldn't read Rolling Stone or any other magazine where their name may come up. I used to think Kleenex was written Clean-x even though I am a lifelong Braille reader, simply because I'd never seen the writing on a Klenex box and never seen the word written in Braille. I think all this talk is so ridiculously foolish it astounds me. The way to make Braille more readily available will be to create an obscenely cheap and portable display, maybe one with no cells at all but uses a form of haptic feedback to tactilly represent Braille like we do points of light on a screen to construct print letters, only fewer dots per inch, as it were.
But the list of common household terms not available in classic literature or other items available in Braille in the 1980s is astounding. It's not if you can read the Braille: it's what you have access to. Audio isn't a trap, it's simply less convenient than Braille is.
That would be like saying should someone use print or a computer. No, use print with the computer / the iPod or whatever, the print is on the screen. A ubiquitously cheap Braille display will fix that problem, not ideals.
I disagree. In the event that electricity goes out, those using gas, wind, water or nonelectric appliances will have it much easier as they can continue as before, in many cases, some for much longer than others. So while the others may survive, in the strict sense, those with access to more resources, not just technology but food as well, will actually live more comfortably. Today, there are several braille magazines wich come from the NLS etc. There is also a much greater availability to cheap braille embossers, braille notetakers and displays and braille translation software. So it makes things much easier. While it makes sense that you didn't know the spellings for certain words, there are common words which many people misspell today due to the lack of seeing them. Hell, even sighted people do it and that, more than anything, drives me crazy. I absolutely hate netspeak, numbers for letters, most imoticons, weird abbreviations etc. Anyway, your idea of a braille display is a good one, but I think that most people who don't need one wouldn't use it when speech is readily available. I could be wrong but that's what I think.
...'Twas back at the time of the discussion
re: what title if any for a lady..
Some had desire of
like,
hey Missy
or to say
always to be titled like
Miss so and so
In some areas the consideration of what constitutes
what is considered to be offensive or no.
. . .
also discussion per
pledging
like for an example
in a public school
say for example in the United States
..is the American Pledge said each morning?
What if the school were private/christian
and there was a pledge to the bible
I suppose depending on someone's
reigius affliate
then may or not
be say, offensive
to say that particular pledge..
or
to say Misc. pledges
What if the class Teacher
was not of the faith that the school represnted
as far as parents spending considerable Thousands of dollars
per a school year
and demanded that all say, anyparticular pledge
of what that school/institution was representing..
Could teacher be fired if not in agreement
or ,ore
more like an example if
particular religious instution of education
demanded a couple be married before having a baby
and teacher was to show forth as in sau, Family Way
..could say, she, be fired/terminated/let go
if unmarried and , in family way/with child??
What on Earth? I never saw a topic like that here. In any case, I consider myself a woman not a lady. Not that there's anything wrong with being a lady, but I'm not the dainty and delicate type. If anything, I go by Miss. I don't know why but I never liked Ms. Certainly, I did participate in a discussion on pledging so will have to check and see that one. I wish there was a Greek pledge similar to the American Pledge of Allegiance so that I could salute my flag and say it every morning. In any case, this is for that other topic, the one about the 10-year-old boy not standing for the pledge. But I will say that I'm against a school etc. forcing religion on anyone, as that should be a private affair.
As I have said I love the simple in life, but one must move on. Yes a Dos computer had to be modified more then just the screen reader. You needed a double talk, some serial ports, and if you had a job you had to have it programmed so that it could do the simplest task, like read the companies notes. Do day you can almost take your computer anyplace and do the basic things. I don't fault you for your beliefs, because I have them, but as I say you must embrace it all, not fight it.You want a sowing machine, but you could use a needle that thread even as a blind person. You should be able to type pretty decently with a regular type writer, because you type on your computer all the time. No, upgrading just to upgrade is not always needed, but saying "where has all the adaptive tech gone" is missing the boat don't you think? It's even more adaptive now. You can go to the park, pull your netbook, or iPone out of your pocket, and get on the zone and bitch about "why I'm so anti digital" With a Dos computer you couldn't even get on the zone to post. Smile. The better tech is the better life is, and that new tech makes it even more possible to restore old things, such as old cars that parts can't be found for anymore, or any other device, because we now have the ability to digitally scan the broken parts and make new ones, so our old tech and work. Yes some shopping is surely needed for you. A dial phone is so easy to use you'd be surprised. Buttons are actually more problems then the dial, because they go bad, dials don't. You put your fingers in holds 1 to 0, so counting is all you need do. Have some of your family take you out just looking at things and you'll learn much about how the old and the new merge beautifully.Last, yes their are great, quality, simple, products still available in the US, and made in the US as well. You can even buy hand made products for reasonable prices, but most quality products will cost more. If you and afford the cost at the start you actually save money, because you don't have to replace them for 20 years and more. Go looking, I really incurrage this.
Thanks for the respect. I enjoy conversing with those who, while they share a different opinion from me, or in our case, a slightly different one, can still respect my views.
Most of the computers from the late 80's and early 90's that I've seen and heard of had serial ports. If they were 9-pin ones, then it was simply a matter of hooking up the synth. I've never worked for a business which used DOSso can't comment on having tohave things programmed, though I'venever heard of that either. I guess it depended on which software the company wasusing.
I know that there are many blind people who use modern sewing machines. In some ways, they might even be safer, since you could flip a switch and immediately stop them. But I've heard great things about treadles, and again, I like the large degree of control that you have with them. Plus, I think it will help with my discipline and attention to detail to use one. The machines which I'm considering all take standard needles and feet (don't ask me what feet are at this stage) so I'm guessing that an accessible needle can be fitted onto those. Grandma actually has an electric one from the 80's that I might try, but the speed of the thing worries me. When using a treadle, I hear that you can go as quickly or as slowly as you want.
I can type better on my electric typewriter than on my manual one, but that's only because my fingers don't have the strength for that due to the fact that I'm not used to having to pound the keys. but I'm sure that some time in basketry and chair caning will make them good and strong. I'm already strong when it comes to lifting things and I never work out or anything.
If there was a piece of technology that worked really well, particularly if nothing has come along to fill it, and it's now off the market but some people have it sitting somewhere on a shelf, why shouldn't those of us who want it have access to it? why shouldn't there be a flee market or an exchange site for older blind tech which still works and which could provide much needed help to those who can't afford the new or who simply want that piece of software or that notetaker etc?
I personally haven't gotten on the net with DOS. But I know a woman from Canada who has never used Windows in her life. She uses DOS and Linux exclusively. I'll need to ask her if she can pull up The Zone. Now I'm curious.
Now that is actually cool! I didn't know about scanning old parts to make new ones. It makes sense but I didn't know that new parts are still made for older things much less how they did it. Wow! A dial is better than buttons? Interesting! When we find the dial phone from the 80's, which hopefully has a normal setup, I'll have to check it out. Even if it doesn't, I could always practise with it just to learn. Where can I find these products? to say that I'm interested would be an understatement! Can you recommend any brand names for things or sites/stores where I can begin looking? Surely, the regular stores won't have them. Now I don't have to buy cheap garbage or worry if something still works/was taken care of if it's used!
Thank You Miss Tiffanita for by this your reply I am given to understand that you are the same one I spoke via this set of Boards on occassion several, severl the months ago in passing.
That was my question of my mind.
Thank You for your clarification.
Peace Be...
Ah. Feet. Smile. Eleni. Thes "and I'm spelling better now" hehe are pedaled. You place your "feet" on pedals and you go. Yes you go as fast or slow as you want. They sew just fine. You can also get electric sewing machines that allow for changing of speeds as well. You press the pedal and the more you press the faster the machine goes, press less it slows down. Tell me what product for the blind that was available then that is not now? Name 2 and I'll tell you the new versions if I even know the ones you are talking about, so describe it. Next all the products I'm talking about can be found at Walmart. Sure their are some specialty shops that have better and a larger variety of things, but I "keep it simple" so I just go to the big box stores. I do like shopping in specialty shops and here in Colorado, especially in the mountains many interesting things can be found, like that sewing machine that you use "feet" on. Lol. I honestly think these are still used widely in the garmet districts in L.A and Texas. As I say if one has the skill and sometimes the money he or she can make many things work that worked just fine in the early days, but tech for the blind was not widely purchased then, so it's just not cost effective to keep it around when you might never find anyone that wants to buy it. You said the Lady in Canada, I believe uses Dos? Then she's using Windows. MS Dos, as you know was a Microsoft product, just different. I'll bet her setup, due to her using linux is windows. Is she blind, or sighted? Linux is new tech Eleni. Smile.
I know that I can look this up on Google, and will eventually do so to learn more, but thanks for clearing that up. I had no idea what things like standard low shank feet, "feed and darning feet and walking and piecing feet meant. At least now I know it has something to do with the pedals. *smile* This is the page where I found the excellent suggestions for choosing my machine.
http://www.treadleon.net/sewingmachineshop/treadles/selectingtreadle.html
As for products for the blind, I was really hoping to grab some from
http://www.abledata.com
because I know that they have an astoundingly large array of product descriptions. Unfortunately, they have so many that it will take time to find that special one for which the gap still hasn't been filled. But I can think of one off the top of my head, and almost all blind people to whom I mention this want one or wish they still kept their's. It's the Optacon. Abledata has a product related to it, which I'll get to in a moment, but not the Optacon itself. But I actually found a whole page on it at Wikipedia. The information there, from the history to the design, is absolutely fascinating!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optacon
"The Optacon consists of a main electronics unit about the size of a portable tape recorder connected by a thin cable to a camera module about the size of a penknife (See Fig. 1).
File:Optacon
Fig. 1 Optacon
The main electronics unit contains a "tactile array" onto which the blind person places his/her index finger. The Optacon user moves the camera module across a line of print, and an image of an area about the size of a letterspace is transmitted via the connecting cable to the main electronics unit. The tactile array in the main electronics unit contains a 24-by-6 matrix of tiny metal rods, each of which can be independently vibrated by a piezoelectric reed connected to it. Rods are vibrated that correspond to black parts of the image, thus forming a tactile image of the letter being viewed by the camera module. As the user moves the lens module along the print line, tactile images of print letters are felt moving across the array of rods under the user's finger. The Optacon includes a knob to adjust the intensity at which the tactile array rods vibrate, a knob to set the image threshold between white and black needed to turn on the vibration of the rods in the tactile array, and a switch that determines whether images will be interpreted as dark print on a light background or as light print on a dark background."
So this device actually lets you read print, without any translation into speech, braille etc. For me, at least, that idea is beyond exciting and I've been wanting to do this ever since I was a child and fell in love with raised print letters on products. The uses of the Optacon are many, and most who still own them prize them very highly. There's even a list out there for users and potential buyers and a man who repairs them. Of course, since it was made from 1971 to 1996, it didn't have the enhancements that modern technology could bring to it. I would seriously advocate the use of digital tech in the remaking of this machine, since not everyone feels comfortable using vibrating rods and there is probably way more that could be done with something like the pins used in braille displays. Plus, I would imagine it would dramatically cut down on costs, since the pins wouldn't have to be handmade. The other problem is the small amount of space that the Optacon shows. It's basically one letter at a time. But given the fact that the user has to manually move the camera across the page and try to read at the same time, that makes sense. Today, we have cameras which could take a picture of the page and hold it in memory so that the live approach need not always be used. Yet even with our technological advances, the Optacon could still read certain things that give regular ocr software problems. This was told to me by friends who own the device and Wikipedia supports this idea. They mention 2007 but I haven't heard of any new developments in these machines since then either. I would be very happy to be proven wrong here. "Some work was done by other companies to develop an updated version of the Optacon to reduce the cost of the device and take advantage of newer technology, but no device with the versatility of the Optacon had been developed as of 2007.
Many blind people continue to use their Optacons to this day. The Optacon offers capabilities that no other device offers including the ability to see a printed page or computer screen as it truly appears including drawings, typefaces, and specialized text layouts."
There was actually a program, made for later models, which allowed the device to interface directly with the pc. This was for DOS. Imagine what it could do for Windows!
http://www.abledata.com/abledata.cfm?pageid=113583&top=0&productid=91831&trail=0
"OPTACON PC
DISCONTINUED. (Verified 12/2002) RETAINED IN DATABASE FOR REFERENCE. --- Optacon PC is a hardware and software accessory for the Optacon 2 (see entry) which provides tactile access to the screen of IBM PC or PS/2 computers. The Optacon PC uses a mouse (included) to move around the screen and select the area to be displayed on the Optacon. The user may switch between the Optacon camera for reading print and the Optacon PC for reading the computer screen without changing lenses on the Optacon. Information displayed on the computer screen can be automatically scrolled, at a user-definable rate, across the Optacon display. Optacon PC can also route the application cursor to the part of the screen being displayed by the Optacon. Optacon PC runs on the IBM PC and PS/2 computers with DOS 2.0 or higher. A CGA, MDA, EGA, or VGA display adapter card is required. COMPATIBILITY: For use with IBM PS/2 and IBM PC computers."
So there you have it, one of the incredible pieces of blind tech which has not truly been replaced. In contrast, there are some products which most people simply don't know have been upgraded or are still being made. An example of this is the Language Master. This is a talking dictionary, grammar guide, thesaurus and general teacher of language through games. It can even be used as a spell checker, because when you enter a word incorrectly, it gives you a list of possible choices and as a memo taker, since you can write messages to yourself and review them later. The one that I have is from the early 90's but a new one just came about a year or two ago. When I mentioned this in another topic, everyone went crazy reminiscing and asking where to get the modern version.
I was under the impression that Wallmart only sells the cheap stuff from China. I could be wrong, but other than paying their workers next to nothing (I read about that during anthropology class in college/Costco is much better), how can their low prices on products be explained? Usually, the new good quality things cost more. I understand the companies, those which still exist at any rate, not keeping their old tech around. But what about users. Why can't there be some kind of warehouse or list for people who are interested in selling, buying, collecting and/or using and maintaining old tech for the blind? From what I recall, she only uses Linux at work. Her home set-up is pure MS-DOS 7 without any Windows, and yes, she is blind and uses a screenreader. I actually found her on the Blind-L list, which has several other DOS users as well.
Coolness! I found a page full of needle threaders, many for use with sewing machines!
http://www.abledata.com/abledata.cfm?pageid=19327&top=15397&deep=2&trail=22,13134,14592&ksectionid=0
Now I just need to see which are still madeand where to buy them.
tiff, just think, some day a ipod or iphone will be ventage, then what will you do? grin
I'll say "thank goodness they don't make those anymore!" lol There are some old things that even I don't like. Oh, and I think I understand feet now! They're attachments which go onto the machine for things like ruffling, tucking, hemming, braiding etc.
The Optacon took a lot of maintenance for the pins. I, too, would have loved to have one.
However, in the day when they were popular you had to have a lot of money to get one. Now, there are even free readers like NVDA, and even JAWS for Windows in today's dollars costs less than the Optacon did in 1970s or 1980s dollars. Cheaper equals more ubiquitous, e.g. those who are not part of the rich or the elite can get a hold of it.
I would love to have an Optacon. If I could buy one and either learn to maintain it myself or pay to have someone maintain it I would be glad. I am also realistic enough to know it took a lot of study and quite a bit of expensive training to learn to be successful with it.
I don't have that much time: I've got to work and raise the teenager and other things, so ... I do what I can with what I've got, which is one hell of a lot more than I even thought possible at your age.
The new iPod Touch and apps have allowed for me to do a ton in real time, like identify a package someone left on the table, perhaps simple things but huge. You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want, irrespective of whether or not it makes sense. But the way you talk is such an affront because many of us who actually lived in those allegedly old days would not like to return to the virtual prison we were in. Yes, virtual prison, no matter what other people said about how independent we were: we simply were restricted, albeit not on purpose, from many things most people take for granted. And I'm for one not about to go spit n the face of all the innovators who have radically changed what I can do in real time, just because of an ideal.
I have a folder on my iPod labeled 'Digital Eyes' full of identification apps, even colors, which I bought for a dollar or so apiece. And while it's not as good as real eyesight, it's one hell of a lot better than anything I've ever had before. Who cares about preference of touch screen or no touch screen? I just took my vacation and knuckled down and learned it just like I did with the early JAWS for Windows tapes they used to ship. And just like those old tapes, it worked like it always does: knuckle down and learn it till you know how, then your world changes. I thought in 1996 I probably saw the greatest revolution I would ever see for us blind people, when i first read a newspaper at the same time a sighted person did. Now, the other day, I identified a package the wife left on the table, I went to DirectionsForMe.org, pasted in the bar code, and got directions. Sure, before I would have guessed and maybe come very close to what the package said: you heat up enough stuff for your kids you know this stuff. But with confidence, having seen the real directions two minutes or less after I walked into the kitchen, setting the iPod on the counter, I saw what it was and had it ready for the kids when they got home.
Sure, it doesn't Braille, but if you're in the kitchen you really want to bring Braille in there anyway? A touch screen just wipes off.
The reason I keep pushing back is the way you go at this stuff is as though the slaves after being released in 1865 had a group of them that wrote about how wonderful slavery was. And, they didn't. In the 1930s during the depression, there were a few living ex-slaves who were documented for NPR. They were grateful to have been freed, and honest, not idealistic, about how things really were. As am I.
The optThe optacon also did letters, and how many blind people do you know that know how a printed letter looks?
A braille display is a far better item, and many books can be just scanned in to your computer and read on the fly. Can you imagine trying to read a book one letter at a time?
It must have been painfully slow. I don't know a single person who relied on one. I saw a Youtube clip showing a little girl reading with one very painfully slowly, to the point I could see why my parents would have never bought that, even if it were an option.
Know what else? The irony was that the dogmatists of that day said that it would make me not use Braille anymore. So go figure. Idealism dresses up in new clothes but you strip tease it and ... in the buff it's all the same.
Back to the simple. Yes, quality products are a wonderful thing. You don’t have to replace them even when newer technologies come along, because they were advanced enough when you purchased them to stand the test of time. Being able to repair, and run your world with or without your gadgets is a great and worthy skill, and if you can afford it this is the ideal life. However, railing against new technology is fruitless, because when you stop to think about it rationally new ideas really save much, and ace life easier, because if they didn’t the idea would fall by the wayside quickly, and people would continue using what they have already.
I love your thoughts, and your debating spirit, and it’s why I post on your boards so often, but to state things are not available anymore, but then have the exact thing you are looking for basically found for you and watching you go a completely different root is interesting. You once said MP3 payers were not accessible anymore and you’d love to have a Zen, so I personally found that exact Zen new even, for a good price. You purchased a Sony Walkman instead, because it was supposed to be more accessible, but learned the speed was not par. That is only one example. So now you are posting the “simple” things don’t exist anymore, but they actually do, then you post that you wish an extremely complicated device, such as an Optacon was still available, when much simpler methods are available to do the same thing and far cheaper right now. Is it that you refuse to see that your simple life is available, or is it just you enjoying playing devil avocate? I have learned, and so have you that you should experience your world more, so that you understand that being blind now days is much, much simpler then it was before, and that manufactures have not forgotten us in their rush to modernize products. In fact it is unreal what we are able to use just by opening the box and putting the product on the table and it works for us, or has some adaptive source built right in. Believing in simple should not mean that simple does not exist anymore; it should mean that you seek out the products that are best for you. Go out in the world, touch it, see the products, handle them, taste them, and you’ll learn that your world it beautiful and not against you.
Maybe I’m in love, because I keep debating you? Smile. Honestly, you make me think and I have spent some time finding the items or products just to prove to your life is good, and above all “simple”
To LeoGuardian: I never said that I wanted to go back in time. Even in this essay, I wrote As an adult, I never seriously wanted to go back in time and throw away all the modern conveniences of life. In fact, there are some, such as indoor plumbing, refrigeration, the telephone and the internet that I wouldn't want to live without, given the choice. I also know that things were much harder in the past, particularly for the blind and that there are some older items which simply aren't as good as their modern counterparts." Yet you seem to think that I do and that I hate all modern tech. If you really want an optacon, they're out there. But usually, they're about $200 and up. Your argument about not having the time to learn is cancelled out by the one about knuckling down and learning. As you said, if you truly want to learn something, you'll sit down and do it. That's exactly what I did with the slate and stylus and I'm much happier and more productive for it. Directionsforme.org is a truly wonderful site. But you don't need an IPod to use it, just a bar code scanner. I know someone who was willing to sell me his ID Mate Omni for $250 and believe me, I was very excited about it. I didn't have the money then but do now, and in any case, my family wants to buy it and it's accessories for it. There is also the KNFB Reader and phones which work with it which aren't touch screen, though admittedly, they're quite expensive. Still, the fact remains that there are choices, so if someone really doesn't want to use a touch screen and can afford or save up for the alternatives, one can get them.
To forereel: Many blind people were previously sighted so know how to read print. Some of these, particularly the elderly, have a tough time learning braille. So for them, something which would allow them to read normal print would be a blessing. For the rest of us, it couldn't hurt to learn. Just imagine being able to write a note with a pen or pencil, proofread it with a modern version of the Optacon and leave it for someone sighted to see or being able to read a note that he or she left for you. Now imagine yourself in a bookstore or library or at a newspaper stand and being able to read the titles of the books or the headlines and stories in the newspaper. Since it's live, it would probably be much faster than scanning the page and waiting for the system to recognise it. Now that's revolutionary! I say a newer version because although it could be done with the old one, you're right about it being difficult at best and downright annoying/impossible at worst to read something large one letter at a time.
To LeoGuardian: I've actually heard that reading was fairly quick for some users. This is implied in the Wikipedia article. I've also personally met several people who use one on a daily basis to read boxes and bottles of products that a regular ocr program and scanner simply can't handle.
To forereel: As usual, thanks for understanding and agreeing with me on quality. I understand your point on not railing against new technology, but if I have something which works well for me, why should others try to pressure me into buying something new or why should I feel that it's necessary, unless it has a major advantage over the old product? It's also important to note that, as many have said, most technology is made for the sighted. So while something with dials may work perfectly for me, something with touch screens might work perfectly for them and that's why it's made. But why should I switch to their idea of perfection when I have my own and it's available? The only reasons why I bought the Walkman instead of the Zenstone were because it would get to me faster, and I needed it in time for my trip, and because I wanted to see first if I could find a 4gb instead of a 2gb player. I'm still baffled as to why so many places have the Zenstone and not the Muvo T100 which is newer and which holds more music.
Again, when I say simple, I don't just mean things that make one's life easier. I mean things which offer more human control and which are simpler in design than some of their counterparts. Granted, the Optacon is a complex device, but I only brought it up because I was asked what tech existed in the past that has no modern equivalent. Yet it still fits into the simple category with relation to control because I, the person, am interpreting and reading the text not just the machine and/or software. As I also said,, while not all simple things have to be old, I do have a love of old tech and things made in that style. So naturally, I'll look there first when seeking out my devices etc. Besides, you can't deny that, often times, something mechanical is far simpler than something electric and/or digital.
You can't use the Optacon to read a written note. It had to be a well printed source and news paper is most times not printed well, so difficult. I as I always say you have great points, but you have not done enouf investagation Eleni. That MP3 player can be had as well. Their could be many reasons why many venders don't carry it, such as the companies service poloicy. Maybe the ciscount price is to high for retailers to make anything on it, but it can be purchased. You are correct that touch screens aren't for everyone, but many product exist without them, and no upgrading just to upgrade makes no sense from an economical point of view unless that upgrade will do much more for you, but stating that older products especially for the blind, are just as good, and can do just as much as new products is just not reasonable. Also the optacon had issues with people actually being able to feel it. That is also a provlem with braille for the elderly. Plan that shopping, or what I call lookie looing trip soon. You'll learn much. Smile.
I didn't think it was possible to read handwritten notes with the Optacon either until I read this on Wikipedia. "Candy Linvill – John Linvill’s daughter who was a Stanford undergraduate at this time. She used the Optacon in her studies. Once when her Optacon needed a repair, Bliss went to her dorm room to pick it up. She wasn’t there so Bliss wanted to leave a message with her roommate. Her roommate told him “You can leave her a note if you print it like a typewriter and she can read it herself.” This was totally unheard of for a totally blind person." I also never said that all blind tech from the past was better. But there are things which the Optacon can do which can't be done by ocr software, as I quoted from Wikipedia and as I've also heard from people who personally own the device.
Just because you can read a hand written note, probably requiring 10 minutes to do so (I tried these things, there is no way you can get an yu reasonable speed with them), does not mean it is an ideal piece of tech. An email is so much more efficient and can be sent to any device, delivering a message instantly.
The iPhone is actually very simple, it's got 4 buttons and a touch screen, the objects are spoken as you touch them, setting up an email account involves providing your email address and password, as well as the host. Nothing else is required, no ports, smtp servers, incoming and outgoing servers, type of email mapping (iMap, pop3, Exchange), it's elegantly simple.
And Windows is much more simple than dos was. Everything is in front of you, you do not have to mix with config files, remember commands and settings, create batch files or the like, you simply ook for what you need and click on it.
Nearly all programs are consistent so you know where to go, what menu will likely contain the items you want.
As someone said once "oh, this is largely intuitive, of course you have to spend years learning it first". And that is what dos is. For certain programs and tasks it is super fast, once you know precisely what you need and how to get it. Many security traders use Dos where they type in the symbol of the stock, buy or sell, amount and a few other variables, faster than clicking, but this is the exception rather than the rule.
So "simple" does not equal old, as you are implying here, it's simply not true. You may prefer old, which is fine, sometimes it is simple, but often it is more complicated.
At the above poster:
Thank you for illustrating the logical falicy she is so hell bent on believing and forcing on others. Mabie she'll get it now.
I never said it was ideal. Everything has it's problems, whether old or new. I'm also not denying that e-mails are quick and efficient. But there are still many times when people will write something quickly on a pad and put on a table or on a refrigerator, to let others know where they are, to give a phone number, to remind themselves or others of something etc. As I've said, I also think it would be much easier to have a more modern device which can take an instant picture so that the user doesn't have to go letter by letter and hold the camera to the paper while reading. Ocr software still can't read handwriting, nor can it read drawings. So a device like this would prove very useful in cases where a visual image is desired and in which no braille printer capable of producing graphics or no software to produce them is available. Plus, as I said, it would enable the blind to use a pen and paper which is light and which produce writing that is automatically readable by the sighted. Simple certainly doesn't always equal old. But to use my writing example, isn't it more simple to just whip out a pen and paper, jot something down and leave it there instead of turning a device, starting up your editing software, writing the note and then either hooking it up to a printer to leave somewhere or having to go on the web or to an e-mail client to send it to someone. Sure, if you have a computer in front of you, it can be done quickly, but it's much easier to just write it. When I play dominoes with Grandma, I have my slate and stylus on the side of me. I pick up the stylus, write the score, put it down and resume play. Even with my laptop in Notepad, it's still heavier and more cumbersome. Another example is microwaves. I put the food in mine, close it, turn the dial to set the minutes and walk away. I don't need to label the buttons because they're flat or remember which does what etc.
I don't even have an iphone, but I can lide my phone out of my pocket and text a messages faster then I can hand write anything. With an iPhone you could snap a picture and send it for that matter. I wish you could actually see an optacon and read a hand written note with one. Smile. Some people write so bad that even reading their notes with good eye sight is hard. It's just not their my friend. Reading about a thing and actually using that thing to do something are totally different. But this is a talk about simple life. I remember you saying that you could no longer buy a microwave with a simple nob. Smile. That is what I mean by going out and checking out your wourld.
An ID Mate, that does one thing and doesn't even upload to the Internet, used at $250, almost as much as I paid for my iPod, which does thousands of things more.
And yes, the reason I have not purchased an Optacon, was people generally don't want to part with them unless there's something wrong, and there is no service available for them. Remember this is one letter at a time: one letter. How much context can you get with one letter? I had a woman who used to be a trainer show me one, do some evaluation thing, said it was disappointing I never got one because in her opinion I would have been good at it. I'm not sure how she knew, all she said to do was line up the camera on letters on a page which isn't that hard moving it around / just a matter of proportions or whatever. But that wasn't real-life looking, maybe three or four letters on a single page and large letters at that. I took what to me seemed a long time to zoom in or center on the exact middle of one. Thirty seconds to a minute per letter. That could be words per hour not per minute. She said looking at a newspaper or a computer screen like I wanted to would be totally confusing / make no sense at that point. Probably true: tracing with a 1970s camera is a lot different than tracing with a finger.
I understand I would, after the course and my own study, get a lot faster. But would I ever really get that fast? Like how you or I can read Braille, or a sighted person can read print?
But compare that to the real world example as I gave earlier. One device, one upload, one set of directions, and voila.
I learned the iPod because of the myriad useful things I could do immediately to benefit not just me, but my family, my shipmates in the Coast Guard, and other people around me. Ultimately devices and technologies are just tools. My grandfather had a set of welding tools, and although there's probably some blind person somewhere who has managed it, I have never had a call to learn it, the time to go to school for it, the money for the school, etc. And then, what would I do with it once I knew? There's no call for it where I am. If there were, and it became a needed item, then yes of course I would, just like the iPod (which I didn't need to pay someone to show me - just use the modern Internet, its manuals and the podcasts people put out there describing things).
With a simpler life in a small town you get all the simpler things: Xenophobia, because people just haven't been exposed to other cultures, an elitist anti-outsiders mentality, continuing to live with sometimes awful condition based on ideals.
My brother, a captain in the Marine Corps was blown away when he went to somewhere in the Middle East, and the native populations would rather remain sickly and unimproved in the simplest ways than to take help offered them with no strings attached. They knew: they just said their ancestors had lived like that so they wanted to. Frankly do what you want, but that's kind of how you come off sounding. You don't get a way of life without its trappings. Only idealists living in a bubble delude themselves into thinking they can do that: and it never works. I have seen family try and struggle with it for years. And, it's sad.
To forereel: It would be foolish to doubt the fact that some people write horribly. But in the case where someone does write decently, I'd be more likely to at least have a chance of being able to read what they wrote with an Optacon than without one. I've wanted to see one for many years now, believe me. I actually heard that the Optacon II was more difficult to use than the older version, but I'm sure that all of these problems could be fixed with a new and better design which still keeps the focus on displaying things as they're actually written/drawn. I went a few times to several stores with Mom and all they had were the digital kind. But she told me that she saw one in the paper with dials and then I found several brand new ones online with them so I was very happily proven wrong there. Then again, I only found one store, Seers, which sells a dial stove and I went to several, just to see if they sold them. So these things exist, but sometimes, they take a bit of research which I can't do unless someone is willing and able to take me or unless I look online.
To LeoGuardian: ID Mate Omnis are still being sold by the manufacturer for several times that amount and the Summets are at least $1200. There is an update cd for the Omni and I believe the Summet actually can update online. If I really wanted to be a spend thrift, I'd buy the one I've heard of for $75. I believe it comes with software as well and isn't just a reader. But it must be plugged into the computer, whereas the Omni is portable. As I said, my absolute all in one dream machine would be this. I mentioned it in the Book Readers for the Blind but gave the Basic. Since we're going all out here, this is the professional version.
MobilEyes Pro Portable Reading Machine for the Blind and Low Vision
http://www.maxiaids.com/store/prodView.asp?idproduct=8862&idstore=6&product=MobilEyes-Pro-Portable-Reading-Machine-for-the-Blind-and-Low-Vision
Here, you have a camera which scans bar codes and performs the duties of a regular ocr program, an mp3 and audio book player, a text to speech reader for things that were already scanned, a voice recorder and player, and with the pro, a flat bed player and cd burner, wifi, bluetooth and lan connectivity, two usb ports, a compact flash slot (presumably, since they mentioned the cards), a qwerty keyboard, the ability to load a screenreader and refreshable braille display and even the option to have gps installed! It utilises nearly 3 times the ram of a phone or a pda and has up to 40 times more storage capacity than said devices. I can only see two major problems with this product. The first is that it's no longer made (perhaps, there's a newer version) and the second is that the price listed here is $5.000! But you can be sure that if someone had one and was selling it for a price that wouldn't kill me, I'd get it immediately! This completely and utterly misses the point of simple, but I needed to prove that yes, there are devices for the blind out there which can meet most of the same demands of the I Products. That said, the Apple products are a fraction of the price and would probably be the choice of most blind people.
I completely agree with you that it would make far more sense to modernise the Optacon so that more could be read at one time. But even your IPod can't read graphics, or to put it in a more meaningful way, it can't properly display them to you so that you could have a tactile image at your fingertips and it also can't display printed letters, be it a whole group of them or one at a time. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I don't think so on this one.
Of course, small towns do have their problems, and not excepting those who are different can often be one of them. But on the flip side, most of the people can relate culturally, know and trust each other and don't fall victim to extreme commercialisation and the superficiality which often comes with city and/or modern life. It's more likely that they'd sit down to a homecooked dinner with the family than go to MacDonald's, that they'd spend time talking with the neighbours or helping the children than going to the mall or causing trouble out on the street, and that they'd appreciate handmade things over those found at the store. Obviously, not all of this is true in all places and there are real life variables which must be considered. I'm speaking from assumptions, which could be wrong, and in generalisations. Who knows? There could be a city person who loves his family and a small town or country drunk who beats his wife. You never know.
I may not like synthetic medicine, but if it's necessary or can prevent truly unwanted consequences, then I must either take it or consider it strongly before I decline. This is why I take birth control. Do I love it? No. But the benefits far outweigh the annoyance and side affects, at least up to now. So to say no to life-saving medicine just because your ancestors didn't take it would be as stupid as me completely refusing to read the internet or to read braille because it wasn't done at some time in the past.
I do understand how not having help can make it difficult for you to learn about things, so I’m going to suggest ways you can do this.
First you have a boyfriend. I believe he can see as well. Why not ask him to take you to the biggest shopping center in your city. In that center you’ll have many stores, and they will have a large variety of things to look at. Go to the major stores first, and if it is electronics you want to see have him take you to that department and ask questions. You can get in a row of products and feel them all, then go to the next one. Ask the sales clerks about things you’d like to know about.
Next instead of looking online for products look online for stores in your city that have things you want to look at. Example www.dexonline.com you can search for cameras, appliances, whatever, and it brings up a list of stores in your city that carry these. You’ll get the phone number and call and ask questions about the products, then after you have located some places have him, or one of your family members take you there. No one willing to go? Call a taxi, or use the services in your city that provide transportation for the blind. I don’t know how good your mobility skills are, so I won’t say just take the bus, but I do know that most cities have door to door services. In my opinion your boyfriend should be the best source, because he can look in the telephone book as well and he understands your likes and such so can locate places to take you to. Same with your mother. I’m sure she’d be willing to do this for you if you find the stores, or shops you want to go to by calling them and learning if they have what you’d like to see. A day of what I call discovery, so several days, because there is much to see. I’m going to give you a few major stores that I feel you should visit.
Wal-Mart, Sears, JC Pennies, your home center, you probably have a Home Depot, or Lowe’s in your city. RadioShack, Best Buy, Target. Most cities have most or all of these. At Sears especially look at the electronics and appliances. You’ll be amazed how many you’ll touch that have nothing but a dial or some switches. Some even click the positions and you can feel that. Others the buttons are raised, so easy to feel. For the other type shop you’ll have to put these in your search engine, for example Dial telephones, or telephones made in retro styling. Do not just stand and be told what is there, actually touch it. It is allowed, and if you explain to a sales clerk “I am looking for a stove that only has dials” he or she will show it to you. The Great Indoors is another wonderful place to go visit. Last, most cities have what is called an old town, and in the old town you’ll find shops that have crafts, odd things, interesting devices for people. Visit that section of town. You and the boyfriend can walk about, eat interesting food. It’s fun. You like Tabaco shops and you’ll find these in the old town. Stuff you didn’t know was available you’ll find too. Your objections? Smile.
My mobility definitely isn't good enough to go on my own, and I'd need an assistant in any case. So it's better to go with Spiros or someone. Thanks for reminding me about a camera! I need a cheap webcam for the computer, a vhs camera for videos and to have my pictures from the disposable one developed and pick up another disposable or get film for one of the many Polaroids around the house... Grrrr!
Mom can see but doesn't drive. Joanie drives but mostly doesn't like to go to stores unless she has to or unless Mom somehow convinces her to do so. While a day might come that we go to one just to look around, that's extremely rare. Grandma only drives local distances and doesn't understand a thing about these things or even know how to get to these places, so she's out. Hmm, Best Buy! Sending Joanie there is like sending a child to a candy shop and Mom and Joanie go to Lowes and Home Depot all the time for things for the house and occasionally to Wall Mart. But most of the time, they go in and go out and don't have the time/energy to take me. It might be easier in the summer, when Mom is off from work and Joanie's workload gets lighter. I actually should go to Home Depot or Lowes for some gardening stuff and I know Spiros will be interested in that as we were trying to get something going last year with garlic. I need container gardening stuff. Spiros can definitely take me to Radio Shack, as there's one in the next town, but I'm not really sure what they'd have that would interest me... Still, I do need an omnidirectional mic for the computer so that could work out. I personally love Seers. I've never heard of the Great Indoors but it sounds interesting. I live in a small suburb about 15 minutes away from New York City, but my parents don't go into New York because they don't like it. Spiros, on the other hand, goes into the city all the time and I'm sure he knows of something that would interest me, other than Astoria, of course. Wow! I would seriously love to find an old town! It sounds like I could get lost in one for hours and lose a lot of money in the process, which is almost unheard of for me. The interesting food and tobacco alone would drive me nuts! But I'm pretty sure that there's nothing like that close to me. The only place I know like that is English Town, which I believe, is way down at the other end of the state. I've been wanting to go for years and seriously think that I must hand over my debit card to my companion if I ever do. It's a huge flee market full of all sorts of cool things! I could probably find everything I've ever wanted over there, that's how big it is. Great, now ontop of celebrating Independence Day tonight, I'll be dreaming of flee markets and old towns! lol Thanks alot!
If you live near New York City, and 15 minutes away you are in the place you should really go. I again know that their are services that will take you if you can't get anyone to do it. So.
There's no way on Earth I'm going into New York alone. Like I said, my mobility skills aren't that good in general, let alone in a huge city like that. But I'm sure that Spiros can take me.
I wonder if they ever did speed or accuracy tests with an opticon and blind people and hand writing.
In any case, it would take a lot of training and it could never be particularly fast, plus being able to spend a lot of time and money on being able to read a hand written note will hardly get you a job, career or education, or be a skill that will impress someone on a resume. Of course it is up to us to decide how to spend our time most efficiently, to me some skill that I can put on my resume and says my experience and knowledge is relevent to the positions I want (tech stuff) is worth time and investment.
Trying to figure out wiring in an ancient phone and probably ending up paying close to the price of an iPhone ($200 with contract, but no data plan), a device that allows me to tell currency apart with a $1.99 app, do OCR, send email, text, write notes, listen to music and so on, is not the definition of efficient or simple.
Certainly one could argue that new portable devices are not as long lasting as the old ones. In the case of a phone bear in mind, however, that cell phones are things you carry around, use in all parts of the world, environments and weather, so they are much more likely to be dropped or come into contact with water, being sat on, stolen, misplaced etc, than an old phone sitting on a desk somewhere.
So, again, one can have love for old stuff, that is fine, but the calim that it is somehow better juts does not really hold up. In some cases, sure, I have a 1960s stereo at home that cost a fortune at the time but has amazing sound even today, but it would not work well with my computer and my $50 speakers have good sound and have lasted me for 2 years now with no sign of breaking down.
This is an interesting question. I would like to see such studies as well if they exist. Not everything is done for the sake of employment or to make one's resume look better. Having the abilities to wash and/or sew my clothes, to clean my house or to watch videos in an easier format won't give me a job. But they will make me happier and will make my life easier. Again, I wasn't intending on paying that much money for a phone either. While some mobile phones, like my Motorola Motofone F3 are made to last, many are cheaply made, even if they cost a lot. So a drop or a spill could damage it and then it wouldn't be worth it's money, regardless of how many advanced features it has. The same could be said for a regular landline phone. Wow! You have a stereo from the 60's? Is it the kind with evrything built-in and the cabinet for holding records? What does it matter whether it could hook up to a computer? It's a stereo not an mp3 player.
My in V 2 is still working and it's over 30 months old. Their was a test done, and that is why the Optacon did not continue. As I pointed out most blind people don't even know the printed letter, and older people that go blind for whatever reason had difficulty feeling the bvibration, so it was even a smaller population, and if you think about it, still is a small population able, but probably not willing to use it, due to other faster, and cheaper methods being available even then, such as the versa braille.
haven't read all this Board and it's various Postings
only to say
from experiance, personal
To go through a time when somehow
found myself
with nerve damage, severe
so much so
that Vision AND Hearing affected
as well
as
speech, swolling,
Somehow,
Recov3y
can be like almost
all consuming
The years
they pass
moments
drip by
in a FlAsH
fLaSh..
Yes, so much can there to
be had in vibrational study
as well as Black Light
then too the greens of Night Vision
I will stop for now
making an attempt at : --
Keeping it Simple
Much in the way of Beauty truly in ways
perceive by some to be Simplicity at
truly the Greatest Best
are found to have the outcome
peacefulness be
At least that explains your bizarre typing and nonsensical wording.
We're al different, I have always hated doing laundry and have been fortunate enough to either have a sighted partner/wife who will do that (I like doing dishes and helping with cooking, so that is my job, as well as all the money things), or have had enough money to hire someone to do my laundry for me.
When you are blind there is always the delicate balance of independence vs career I think. I could become fine at independent living/ironing/laundry (not fine, but at least passable), but it will always take me much longer than a sighted person and requires me to keep a system for color marking clothes etc. I do not see the point of this for me, and prefer to spend my time on a career skill, but I fully realize that is completely my choice.
I feel quite comfortable outside walking, though my o&m skills are certainly not in the top 1% (but probably top 20), and with a GPS LookAround features on a phone I can even explore what is around me (stores, cafe's etc), something you cannot do with any old technology, and something the iPhone, that $200 piece of equipment, allows you to do with $20 additional software.
My stereo is an amplifier and 4 speakers, I can hook up things via the auxiliary plug ins, but it is not aimed at modern technology, so it presents some inconvenience. I prefer good computer speakers or a stereo with an iPod slot so I can play the music stright from the source format.
I think a lot of devices are built to last, again, the iFamily of products has performed well in that regard. I really am not an Apple fan, despite what my posts would indicate, but I cannot deny the revolution that iPhone present, decent web accessibility combined with GPS presents a whole new world, add a camera with OCR and object recognition, money teller and color identifying abilities, and bar code scanning (ok, to be fair, not sure about a color identifier, I am 90% sure I have seen one), ... all of this in a $200 package (separately these devices for the blind would easily cost over 10 or even 20 times as much), and there is no arguing with the possibilities of this.
in regards to Post #43 of the current #44 Board Post
reading
of
Board Titled :- The Boards - Keep it Simple: My Views on Life and Tech
under: --
You are here: The Boards: Writers Block
[ Topic: Keep it Simple: My Views on Life and Tech
196 Views, 1 subscribers ]
my reply, personal, is,
"That is your opinion"
So, you took 17 lines counting blanks to say what could be said on one for what reason?
Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the idiocy of this. As for the other posts you made Grace, what on Earth did they have to do with the subject at hand?
I am in the midst of dish washing
No Electric
dishwasher
using sink
metal sink, plastic dish liner
rubber gloces
Dish Washing Liquid
sometimes S O S pads
dish scrubbers and Etc...
also hand lotion close by
Talking off new stuff being cheaply made.
I can look up the story, but it can be found on www.wral.com (Raleigh local news channel).
A guy dropped his iPhone from a helecopter, I believe it was over 1000 foot drop (I read this yesterday, too lazy to go find it again).
He used the phone's tracking software (built into IOS 4.2 and later) to track down where the phone fell, which he did, and there was not a scratch on it, phone in like new condition.
Try that with an optacon.
Granted, a Perkins brailler could probably take that kind of a fall (minus the keys).
But who is to say modern stuff is worse made.
I have heard of
___Perkins Brailler___
..interesting sounding machine
Okay, that is seriously insane and definitely impressive. But I'm sure my Western Electric 2500 could have survived that fall as well. They're built like tanks. Same with my Rural typewriter from 1908. That said, so could my mobile phone, which is very modern. The difference between mine and the IPhone is that mine was actually designed for third-world countries, to withstand drops, spills, dust and harsh weather, which I'm sure the IPhone was not. So again, I'm impressed here.
Yeah. It actually allows you to type whole sentences on the same line without double spacing every few words. Now that I think of it, so do computers!
..interesting
Probably was one of us that got it early, so paid 500 for it, so just had to go find that baby. Lol That was luck.
Why do you say the iPhone was not designed for drops and spills? From a company who doesn't ship it with a usable case?
That is again, silly idealism. The patent on the screen technology includes the shatterproof glass. I don't know the device you mentioned being built like a tank, but anything seriously heavy would suffer internal compression fractures on impact more than a lightweight device. In other words, you could fall from a ten story building and probably die. A field mouse, due to its weight, just might make it.
It's clear you're assuming things. The only phones I know of who were seriously missing design elements to deal with drops and spills were the Razor phones of 2005 / 2006. Most other phones are a. compatible with the third world and b. designed to be dropped. Cell phones are dropped more than they are anything else.
And the iPhone is sold in third-world countries and speaks / displays many languages.
the same can be said of the endless supply of Nokia and other phones on the market. You're just being silly.
Actually, the durability of the Motofone F3 and it's being sold to third world countries was one of it's selling points, along with it's extreme ease of use and long battery life. So part of that came from the manufacturer and reviewers whom I've seen write about it. The way they made it sound, most other phones weren't built for such rugged use. I didn't know that about weight and falling. It's an interesting concept. I'm not the science type, though, so that's not surprising.
I don't think the iPhone was built for rugged use, it's just general strong. However, their is a issue with the I Phone 4, that if the back gets scratched from dirt, or grit in your pocket it can shatter. I believe any portable electronic device is designed with reasonable drop ability, and no older phones are not better or worse at it.
Newer phone cases - at least many - take shock absorption into account. Older devices generally were not designed with deliberate durability in mind: consider you didn't carry older electronics around with you as much, and there was typically a long list of do's and don't's in the manual for how you could or could not use or handle the device in question.
I do stand corrected on the back scratch issue, but yes, the iPhone was in fact manufactured to be marketed worldwide for all sorts of terrain: remember Apple is an extreme example of a newcomer into the telecom space. If they were going to make it at all, and we're talking iPhone 1 in 2007 / 2008, they had to create something that was worldwide serviceable.
Eleni, I have no doubt your phone itself is extremely rugged, but when you read material from a company remember they are the authority on their own product not necessarily everybody else's. So, when they say it's rugged, or will actually guarantee (there's the meat of it) a drop or a spill of a certain amount, that is data you can count upon to a reasonable extent. However, when they begin saying how much better they compare to everybody else's, that isn't data you can count upon from the manufacturer: that would be your Consumer Reports data if there is any, to that effect.It is important when looking at what is said, to draw the distinction between where the expertise is, and where it is mere opinion or marketing.
Now, if they were to cite you a source, that you could forthwith look up, from an independent body, that is entirely another matter.
If you really want what you think of as rugged technologies, look for things designed to military specifications. They tend to be more expensive because of what it takes to perform at these levels, and much of your older technology will not fit the bill, but that is where many go to get rugged.
Certainly, I would never trust wild claims made by a manufacturer. I've actually read reviews from consumers and other third parties. The most incredible of these, that I took with a huge grain of salt, is that someone drove over the phone with a car. Others were more modest, saying things about getting it wet or dropping it. Of course, things made to military specifications are far more rugged and reliable, which is why the Toughbook caught my eye for awhile when laptop shopping. But if I really wanted to go all-out on a phone, I would get a bag phone. But they're huge, even by my standards, and the cost almost makes blind tech look cheap (usually $500 and up)! Still, I would love to see one and to know if there are any which can work on today's digital networks in America, particularly T Mobile.
Ok, if I may just throw an opinino out here for a minute, hate me if you want. What it sounds like to me, is that your taking a like for antiques, and turning it into a need for old things, and convincing yourself that they're more reliable, to avoid stepping out of your comfort zone. I'll explain.
On this board, and on other boards you've posted, (the MP3 player and laundry machine boards leap to mind), you have been presented with several options that would suit your specifications, but are not old and not manual, and you thusly assume that they are not made to some rugged and arbitrary specifications. You've thrown them out, and a lot of times your reason has been that your mobility skills aren't good enough, or you would have to label something in order to make it work.
Lets take those two excuses for a moment. The first, your mobility skills are not good enough for you to go to the store on your own, or to go out places on your own. Why are you settling for antiquated materials, which may or may not work better, but from al evidence are certainly much more difficult to find, and are much less efficient, simply because your not willing to do the work it would require to get better mobility skills?
And really, how much mobility skill does it take to go to the store on your own? You call a cab, you walk out your front door, you get in the cab, you say where your going, you enjoy the ride, you arrive, you ask for help to the door of the store, you find the customer service desk, and you ask for help. Its not the boston marithon, its walmart. You probably aren't going to be required to cross an eight lane highway in the Walmart parking lot.
All that aside though, if your mobility skills are not good enough, why are you settling for sub-par performance from yourself? If you are taking so much time in asking for antiquated materials, because you claim they hold up to some rigorous standard, why aren't you holding yourself to the same rigorous standard? Why not go out and get the training, or do the practice, so that you can have the skill required to do these tasks?
Perhaps, if you did that, you would understand why all of us see your clinging to the past as extremely inefficient. Maybe it wouldn't change your idea of mp3 players, but it may certainly make you desire a GPS system. Oh, and if you say you'd love to have a GPS system, then your being hypocritical, because none of those were made decades ago, and would all only hold up to modern standards, not your arbitrary ones of the devices of the past.
Now, for the second reason. Your blind, the people who make the devices we use, are not blind. It stands to reason, therefore, that we would have to make some changes to that technology to make it useable. I do not understand your reluctance to do a simple task that does not take very long at all, and only requires a bit of assistance from a sighted help. IN some instances, like that of a washing machine, it might not even take that, because labels are readily available from several top brands in the washing machine market.
It sounds to me, and you may disagree with me, that you are simply scared to face the independence you wish to have. You cling to the past because it is easiest, and yes, it probably is, but easiest is not always best.
I am quite sure that every single blind person in the world, has at one point wished they could be lazy, do nothing all day, and have everything in thie lives done for them. However, it is the ones that get up, find a way around their obstacles, and don't settle for what is easiest, which are now telling you how you may more efficiently produce the ends you seek; and your ignoring them entirely. Your presenting some lame excuses, based on foundless and arbitrary ideas which you can't support and don't have the wherewithal to stick to. Your wishy washy. You claim to only want things of old, but then wish the products of the new. When told, in another board, that you could use an IPod without ITunes, you loved the idea. Your scared of a program, because you have not done the research it takes to know if you can use it or not.
My suggestion to you is to stop your metaphoric sniveling, realize that life is going to suck some times, your going to get hurt, go out, fall down, get up, and find a way to live your life on your own. I can promise you, you will feel much better when you first realize you can do nearly everything, by yourself.
Now, feel free to try and rip my argument apart by trying to have your cake and eat it too.
I'd hardly call an mp3 player old or antiquated, even the Zenstone and Muvo T100, which are a few years old. As I said, I bought the Walkman because I was in need of something in a hurry. I also asked about those other players with Rockbox on them. But yes, my original idea was to get something simple, like the Muvo T100, with no screen and/or no need to install software on it. Why is that a bad thing?
I've heard that the electric countertop washers and driers weren't all that reliable, and as I said, I don't want to have to have someone come and install a regular one, nor do I have the room for it. So a manual/portable one really does make the most sense there. It won't kill me to do a bit of work and save a bit of money and water in the process.
Cabs are expensive. So now we're adding money to what I'll be spending when I buy things. Plus, many drivers ask for directions or don't understand English. If he/she gets lost, I'll have no way of telling him/her where to go, since all I'll have is the address to my destination. If I go with one of those services which help the blind etc. they very well may bring me to the door, but many won't do this. I also like to shop with people whom I trust to tell me about the things which interest me, who have the time to browse with me and who won't jip me with money. If I pay in cash and I'm alone, they could just as easily give me a $1 and say it's $20. The credit card machines don't talk, and neither do the ones for food stamps, so I'd need to give my pin to someone whom I don't know. Also, in the case of Wallmart, it's a big and crowded store. How am I supposed to get through all of those people and find a customer service desk? It's not like going to a small local store where they get to know you and you just go up to the counter. That would be fine with me.
Technically, yes, there was a DOS-compatible GPS system and map called Strider and Atlas respectively. But I would not seek those, as I want something which changes as the roads and landmarks change. As much as everyone thinks that I'm missing points, so are they. Something doesn't have to be old to be simple. If I find a coffee grinder from 1915 and one from 2011, and both are manual, then both are equally simple and I would probably choose the modern one if the material was sturdy. It's the technology that I like, not necessarily the age.
Why should I have to go out of my way to deal with complicated interfaces and/or a thousand options or to label tons of things on a new system when I could just put a few dots on a dial and be done with it? Even when labels are available, there are cases in which the technology itself just isn't desirable from a blind point of view. If I turn the dial to much on a stove, I can figure out how much and adjust it, but if I hit a button on a digital one too many times, I now have no idea of the temperature. Again, what's so hard about turning a dial and why is all this extra stuff necessary? Btw, I saw a nice new stove at Seers, and though I already have a working one, I wouldn't have a problem buying it if I did need one. Again, it doesn't have to be old to be good.
I'm not scared to face independence, at least not when it comes to technology. I just don't see a need to fix what's not broken. If a proven recipe for success exists for me, then that's what I'll use. I have no problem, for example, using a regular keyboard on a computer. So why on Earth should I get something with a touchscreen to do the same thing? I'm not scared of a program, in this case, ITunes. It's just far easier to copy and paste things than to have to deal with the nonsense that it presents, especially when my music is set up in a different manner from what it requires. You can have your cake and eat it too. Eat half and save half. You won'thave what you ate, but you will still have eaten cake and have some left over. *smile*
Eleni here is where I take issue with you:
Your touch screen business is a perfect example: You ask a circular question in order to evade a situation:
Sorry tif, but every single one of those reasons you listed for not getting out, were pathetic. yes, walmart is big and crowded, so are malls, target stores, best buys, and every other store your going to go into in your life, deal with it. Hears how you find the customer service desk, you walk in the door, since they are almost always in the front of the store, you turn in the direction that the most noise is coming from, and you walk until you find a counter, then you ask. If, when you ask, it is not the customer service desk, you have a choice, A. continuing walking and try again, B. ask someone if they will be willing to show you where the counter in question is.
So cabs are expensive, so some services don't drop you off right at the door. Guess what, I don't have four muscular men to carry me everywhere I go, or a vending machine that spits out chocolate and soda whenever I wish. Life sucks, get a helmet.
Let me pose this serious question for you. You've mentioned having sisters, a boyfriend, and a mother who help you do things. What happens when your mother passes away, god forbid, and your sister gets married or goes off to college, or moves away, whatever is applicable, and your boyfriend is sick, and needs you to go get him medicine. Or what happens when your boyfriend passes away, again, god forbid. What are you going to do when the people you burden now, no longer wish to allow you to be their burden?
And yes, not matter how you look at it, you are being a burden to them. Whenever you ask someone to do something for you, that you could easily do yourself, you are being a burden. So what will you do when you have no one else to lean on, no one else who will live your life for you, what are you going to do?
Side note, Leo, they do make tactile tape measures. Granted, they only measure five feet or so, but they have them, and they're accurate, I've used them before. You might try one of those. Or perhaps a lazar tape measure, a bit more pricy, but very accurate, and can measure up to 30 feet or longer in some cases, and very easy to use.
You won't get lost in a cab. The drivers know where they are going, but I understand your fear. Rely on your cell phone. The drivers of any service, except the public bus will take you inside the store and get you to the service counter, just ask. Tip cabbies a bit, a dollar or 2. You don't have to use a touch screen, and as I pointed out you have many options with dials, or nobs that will work just as well and last long. Even the small washers that stack have nobs. Go lookie looing soon. I am sure your boyfriend will take you.
To LeoGuardian: Usually, when a consumer buys something, it's not just based on enhancements, but on features (or lack their of), aesthetics and cost among other things. So if there are two refrigerators, one with ice through the door and one without, and a sighted person chooses to buy the one without and make her own ice, what's the problem? Here's another example. Mom can see without any difficulties. Yet she has never driven. She tried it and hated the feel of the wheel, plus was worried that her temper would get the best of her in traffic jams. Now someone like me would say "what's wrong with you? You could see and you don't drive?" But it's her choice, whether I understand it or not, and she's always managed to make it through and find a friend, family member or a cab to get to where she needed to go. You seem to be telling me that, instead of having a choice, I'm forced to buy these things in order to not burden the sighted. Yet they're perfectly willing to help me. If this is the case, who cares whether it's because I'm blind or whether it's because I choose not to do something? Should Joanie stop driving Mom and demand that she get a license just because she can?
As for money, yes, this is an issue. If I buy this product and don't like it, knowing the nature of such things, it's value will depreciate and I won't be able to sell it for nearly the same price. I also have had a bad taste in my mouth from the Macbook. My first one had to be sent in and replaced the first week because they sent me a bad model. My second one went to the store at least five times! I seriously forget why at this point, but even the tech said that it wasn't my fault. Plus, I seriously can't stand the interface of VoiceOver, particularly interacting, the fact that you can't change to another screenreader which could potentially be friendlier because none exist, that most programs for the Mac aren't naturally free and that it doesn't automatically read Greek. So that means paying $100 to get a software synthesizer to do what NVDA does for free. As for the IPhone and IPod, I honestly can't say. Perhaps, some of these issues have been fixed there. You would be the one who could tell me that.
As for tape measures, there are at least four accessible ones which spring to mind. The first is a carpenter's one with braille and/or tactile markings. The second is the same but talks and the third is for sewing, is soft and has holes in it. All but the talking one are fairly cheap. then, there are rulers with braille and tactile markings, which could not only help you with the measurements but with keeping your cut straight.
SilverLightning: If your sarcasm were acid, it would burn a hole in my computer. Maybe, not all people are rich like you. Maybe, paying a huge amount to get to a relatively short distance doesn't suit everyone, and maybe, there are people who have had different experiences from you. Not everyone is the same. I don't have any sisters, but yes, I do have a boyfriend, and due to his age, it really would be wise that I learn how to take care of him, incase, way down the line, something should happen where he needs my assistance. I was planning on learning more mobility in the summer but don't feel comfortable doing these things right now without it. I would like to try things with him or Mom there, but just as watchers and not involving themselves in things. But with Mom, she mostly wants to get things done and doesn't have time for such things. Spiros is often tired and only comes on the weekend. But things should get much better in the summer and I'm sure we can make a few trips to the store etc. together when the weather improves. I know he would be willing to help me if he knows that it's for my future. Actually, the steel tape measure is 25 feet. I've never heard of the laser kind.
To forereel: Thanks, as usual, for your civility and also for understanding my apprehension when it comes to cabs. I actually know more than one friend who had paratransit ask them where to go when they went off-coarse, and these friends have always been blind so have never driven. What did you mean about using my phone? The only thing which came to mind is calling TellMe but they give directions in an odd way "drive two tenths of a mile" etc. My current phone does not contain a gps. I'm pretty sure that I've seen those stackables, and while they really are a great idea, I honestly don't have the room or the money for them.
Eleni and SilverLightning, now I know about the tape measures. Don't have to do it that often, and I don't remember what terms I entered into a search engine looking for one but it came up a failure in any case.
Now I know what to look for, and can't say it's because I can't see but simply because I don't have one yet.
The refrigerator incident, and that with your mom, are not the same as us at all.
First the icemaker:
The argument you gave using that doesn't hold water because the person is still making their own ice.
As to your mom, her partner, friends and family all know why she doesn't drive, and are all comfortable with it. She isn't saying it's caused by a physical impairment.
In fact, when a robotic vehicle does make it to the roads that blind people can drive, I will consider it my duty to learn it right away, provided finances permit, and will no longer be saying I don't drive because I'm blind, because that won't hold water anymore. There is a huge difference between needing help because of a physical limitation, and wanting help because of a lifestyle choice. In the case of your mom, she's worked it out and isn't being disingenuous in the least.
But if I go and decide not to use something I learn about, just because it doesn't match my beliefs, I can't go asking for help in the same way as someone who is physically prevented from doing it.
That's all I'm saying.
Requesting accomodations is something for people who have no other option, not for people who want to support a belief system.
I can think of many things I used to ask for help for, which frankly don't make sense for me to ask help for anymore, because I can now do it myself.
As blind people we unavoidably have to ask for assistance for certain things, and I unlike some awkward-aware fools on here, don't think we should at all be ashamed of it. However, a burden by its definition requires shock absorption. All your beloved mechanical technology exemplifies this. Parts always do wear out, no exceptions there, they simply wear out less quickly when adequate shock absorption is installed. We have the advantage of being able to upgrade the shock absorption - do more and more things not just for ourselves but for those that depend on us, and so in modern times the shock absorption to burden ratios get radically slanted the other way.
Usually, I shop at Maxiaids, but found some very interesting measuring devices here. Most I had seen elsewhere but the first two are completely new to me. By the way, their shipping is usually free (heavy things like boxes of braille paper aside) so you could literally spend a few dollars and get something neat in the bargain.
http://secure.nfb.org/ecommerce/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=9
There are certain things which I can't do because I'm blind. But there are others which I choose not to do. While I have said that I don't like the touch screen interface, I've never said that I absolutely can't use it because of my blindness. That would be silly, since many blind people do use them. You say that "Requesting accomodations is something for people who have no other option, not for people who want to support a belief system." Mom's choosing not to drive is just that. There's no reason why she physically can't do it. She just doesn't want to do so. Yet you also say "As to your mom, her partner, friends and family all know why she doesn't drive, and are all comfortable with it.." Well, my family knows that I don't like overly digitalised things and touch screens and are comfortable with that. So where's the difference?
Aah, Serotek has got something for you *grin*
http://blog.serotek.com/2011/04/serotek-enters-note-taker-market-with.html
6 different types of Dos supported ... and this has nothing to do with the date.
Well, your main problem with the wonderful old tech, is you don't get it to work for you.
You buy an old phone and then can't get it to work because the wiring was done before Columbus discovered American (or redisocovered, the vikings did it first).
You've been talking about a dos machine since, well, not sure, 2 years or something, still not working.
In the meantime you have bought something like 5 computers and you must have spent more than the $150 a decent used Windows XP netbok costs that can do what you want much better than dos, or an iPhone which costs $200 with a $30 external keyboard.
I am not a fan of the MacBooks but their mobile devices, they got it right on, hanging up calls aside, much more basic and intuitive than any dos computer.
lol! I had a good laugh with that one. It's a shame that new tech can't be created from old parts. That is actually a very cool idea! But I doubt it would work with blind stuff. I'd actually want, hold onto yourself, a slightly upgraded model!
I was unaware of the phone's wiring, so that was partly my fault and partly the fault of the seller for not explaining that it was hard wired. I'd seen several instances of that same phone from the 80's with normal jacks and had never heard of hard wiring until this came up. The netbook was a disaster but the Mac and the Thinkpad still work. That reminds me! I need to get that adapter for my other Thinkpad with Windows 98 on it! I think $150 is a decent price, especially for a netbook which will probably break down soon, and more so for a fully working DOS machine. Hmm, I'll need to look around. But if I do buy a netbook, mostly for it's built-in mic and camera and at least 2gb ram, I want something with a solid build, solid (not membrane) keys and page up/down, home and end and a small size.
As to your question about what is the difference between your situation and your mom's?
Well, maybe none, provided you don't claim things to be inaccessible - as you have done on other boards here, which are otherwise accessible. If they know it is exclusively because of your choices and beliefs, then you are one of the few who can artificially sustain a set of beliefs using external factors like your family to do it.
Most of us will never truly understand that, but at least you're not being disingenuous at that point: claiming things to be inaccessible, which means one cannot use them because of a physical limitation.
My only beef is claiming that things are not accessible, which means a sighted person may feel an obligation to accomodate because there is no other way for you to access and do it yourself, when in fact you are just wanting to sustain a set of beliefs.
If that's not happening, and they're just supporting your beliefs and preferences knowingly without believing themselves that your blindness is keeping you from doing something,, knock yourself out.
Know this, though, that accomodation is hard enough in any work setting and an employer, if they even do provide you equipment at all, is not obligated under any circumstances to support a lifestyle.
I doubt that there is much accommidation needed in chair caning, basketry or any of my other crafts. So I should be fine there. *smile*
Okay Eleni. I have a netbook, and have had it almost a year, and it works just fine. You have to understand that sometimes you'll get a bad product, and if you get a second bad product you send it back and ask for a complete refund, but you must do this right away. After that you change to another brand. You Dos computer could honestly work, but not like you wish, and I've explained several ways to get it working as a hobby, not a daily using machine. About the phone it works. I am sorry you have a problem getting it working, but hard wired phones are just not difficult to get installed. Try my suggestions. Last what I meant about using your cellphone. If you happen to get in to a cab and the driver gets lost call his or her cab company. They'll get it fixed for you. To avoid getting cheated if you are afraid only carry ones or 5 dollar bills. Example, if the fair come to 10 you give 2 5's, if it comes to 13 you give 3 and you understand. I again say you don't have to get the latest and greatest, and I promise you products are still accessible and simple. Your mom doesn't drive, so call a cab and take her with you. Smile. That solves much doesn't it? If she won't go, and your boyfriend won't go, use the taxi or the transport for the blind in your city. Call before you go to learn what the store you wish to visit offers. I do think if you want you'll fine ever reason to complain, then again if you want you'll go out and find these items that are abailable to you. Wanting nobs and such is not only a blind thing believe it or not. Many sighted people simply don't like buttons and can't understand how the settings work, so. Some just like the looks of nobs and switches to match the cecore in their homes. Try it. Smile.
Every time i read your posts, I come away with a positive feeling. I think that Spiros will be able to take me once the weather warms up, and then I could see what you're talking about. LIke I said, the technician said that if someone (probably the previous owner) didn't mess with all the cords in the phone, he could have fixed it in a matter of minutes. but he/she pulled them out and they were just a mess and kept unraveling each time he tried to hook them up to the screws. Spiros wasn't able to send the phone to the guy he knows yet, but when he does, I'll let you know what happens. This is such a shame, as I know damned well that it could work but don't know how to fix it on my own. I hope it's okay for me to ask, but is your father still living? If so, would I be able to pay him to fix it?
For such a simple issue you really need local talent. Just call the home stores. It's really just not as hard as you think. Even if the wiring is changed someone that does electrical work will know what to do about that. I'm betting, since it worked to some extent it is just fine. Connecting it in your home requires someone to be at your home.
I'm hoping we could either use a four prong connecter or one with a modern plug at the end. I really don't think Mom would appreciate (or allow) them to break through the wall to install it. *smile*
Braking through a wall is not required. Call.....
Then why does someone need to be here to install it? That's an honest question, not trying to be sarcastic.
Okay, because you must connect the wires that are in your house already, inside the jack to the phone. I'll explain generally again for you. The person will either open the jack on the wall and add wiring to that, then add another jack or electrical box to that jack and attach the new one to the wall just like the one you feel their now. Then wire will run from that box to the phone. Or they might simply run wire from the jack that you have now directly to the phone. If that person goes outside to the B box, and I doubt they will that wiring only requires a small drilled hole in the wall. You already have them now, because you have cable and telephone services, so won't even notice it. You can make this small job difficult by over thinking it, or you can simply call and get someone over to your place to do this work for you. It's not difficult. That person might even connect a box to the phone, so you can simply connect it with a jack, but I doubt it, because these phones were designed just to be wired, so the configuration is harder. It's a neat job and you'll not notice the wiring.If this proves just to hard to imagine, and you want a phone that looks like that style, then call Western Bell and order a new one that has a jack, or call some stores that offer retro telephone designs.
That will require working your 411 service.
lol That or TellMe, or I could just get a Western Electric from the 80's. Coolness. I realise now that you did explain this and I apologise for asking again. I got very little sleep last night so my brain's not functioning on full power.
No, you need a Western Electric that is new. Just easier. 12 buttons, a receiver. Smile. I didn't mind telling you again really, but if you don't use the advice then you can't get it working.
But the 80's ones and the new ones are exactly the same, only the modern ones are made in China and not from WE. That said, the ones from the 80's were proned to breaking more, which is the original reason why I got the one from 75.
Well a phone is pretty simple but we've managed to complexify it somehow by the beliefs and specifications here.
As for me I kept things simple this afternoon in a way I never have before: I heard about a new book, went on the iBookstore on my Pod and bought it, just like anyone else, no messing with a scanner, getting pages wrong, or having to wait for the services for the six-month-behind blind to publish it, if they deign to do so, for us to get.
Granted this particular book has been out a year, and it's the first I've heard of it, but were it a new release even, I could've bought and used it at the same time someone sighted did.
Very, very, very, simple.
Amazingly simple, and when I think I can't be amazed anymore at more stuff we can get, you go and find something else that actually works and works well.
right on, Leo.
I'd rather either have a hard copy or a txt, rtf or doc file of the book so that I could transfer it from machine to machine without difficulties.
How do you know the new Western Electric Phones are made in China? Next, if it happens to be made in China, how will you know this when you buy it, being that you will never read the manual, and it won't be stamped on the phone? Third, the shirt that you currently are wearing while you read this post, do you know where it was made? My point is, if a products, and the manufactor will support that product for the time they say, does it matter? Smile.
Western Electric, to my knowledge, no longer exists. The phones are now made by another company, and I've read that those are the ones made in China. I'm not sure where my current shirt was made, though I do know where to find American and European-made clothing. The thing about these phones, at least with the slightly older ones, is that they last for decades. That's why so many are in use today. I don't want to buy something with three years of support. I want something that will last. Granted, I did find a few different phones made in Japan, so will need to check those out, but that's another topic and I'm sure they're a bit expensive, since they're cordless.
cordless is not simple, but okay. Smile. I give.
No, definitely not. And it's not what I originally wanted either. But I do have a very nice Toshiba cordless phone from the 90's that I would like to replace.
What's wrong with products made in china exactly? Do you think they're made of bamboo or something? They're the exact same product as made in america, just made in china. What problem do you have with them other than some idea that they will mysteriously fall apart after three years, and what exactly is your basis for such claims? Do you have any experience with a chinese phone falling apart after three years?
If you can get a brand-new book in your favorite format, because, as you say, you would prefer it, you rae light-years ahead of the rest of us: txt and rtf make no copyright arrangments necessary for the sale and purchase of a digital product.
If not, and you go with your preference, we are indeed radically different: I would much rather have access to information in a timely manner than to have it in my preferred format, which would be so many volumes of Braille I'd need a European or New England Estate to hold it all, and a whole team of little green men Braille transcribers to keep up with the ever-changing, ever-updtaing publications.
However, I can never have this, and I would rather have direct access to new publications than not to have it: irrespective of the format it comes in.
So, either you have no perspective or value at all for what we now have, or you simply allow your ideals to trump your abilities.
People who thought like you burned people who thought like me around the time of the Printing Press, and for over 100 years afterwards, because they of their own necessity clung to old ideals that maintained an elitist attitude and atmosphere: not about txt and rtf, but the point still stands.
So long as minds like yours never run a political effort to remove what we all now have, that is fine. But for most of us, we blind people have had such incredibly limited access to mainstream modern publications for so long, told to be grateful for what we got, that we would be fools to adopt a information-gathering system such as yours. Technology, specifically modern technology, does for uswhat eyes do for sighted people: Absolutely nothing unless we actually apply and use it. And we're responsible, not some 'them' group of sighted people, if we don't: they aren't responsible for this fooling around.
Plus, if I may be so rude as to add a point to Leo's very well written retort, considering that enumerable posts of yours on this very board have been trying to find ways to make your so called simpler technology work correctly, is it really simpler? If you have to rerun the wiring in your house, just to use the simpler phone, when you could get a phone with twelve buttons for twenty dollars at radio shack, and just plug it in and start chatting away, which is really simpler?
You've written more boards then I can count, trying to get help on your quest to find the antiquated technology you want, so that you can make your life a lot simpler. However, if you'd just go out and get the new technology, you wouldn't have to go through all the trouble of asking us for help trying to find the antiquated, and clearly not simpler technology.
So, what excuses do you have left? You can't say its because of quality, the products made today are of much higher quality then they used to be. The wiring in the telephones you can go out and buy now, is vastly superior to that which you'd find in older phones. Plus they are updated with modern connections.
It can't be because of blindness, because all it would take it a few minutes with some braille lables, and you'd be fine. And you can't use the excuse that you've used before, that you prefer to have dials, because you still have to have a system of labelling dials, or at least learn how they work and what the settings are.
I'm sure in some cases your reason is valid, wanting small washing machines because you have a small living space is a valid reason, but wanting them to be done by hand is ponitless. There are several very small, electric washing machines if you would be willing to just pay a bit extra. And your excuse against that, that you don't want to spend money on something that is just going to break in two years because modern technology is made with poor quality, has been proven baseless.
I will grant you that some products created are not of good quality, but that can be seen going back as far as any product has ever been manufactured. Sometimes, you get bad products.
Perhaps, if you would actually get out of your house and look at products, you might be able to better judge which products are better or more strongly made. But you won't do that, because you don't have the mobility skills, and are unwilling to do it.
So, just tell us, how many more board posts are we going to have to prove you completely and totally wrong on, before you finaly admit that your simply being lazy and clinging to outdated and clearly baseless dogma's, simply so you can continue to be a burden on the sighted people around you?
thank you, Cody and Leo. oh, but I'm sure she'll come back saying she isn't a burden...cause the people around her don't tell her the truth, so that *couldn't* be the case, right? lol.
Sheesh! Harsh much, peoples? If she likes and wants to use older tech for some stuff, then it's her right to use it. And where the frack is this burden thing coming from?
I want to make a few comments on the Opticon. A few months ago, I was fortunate enough to get to see one. However, I couldn't make any sense of it. The Opticon seems like it would be the ideal solution for those of us who have been blind since birth, and therefore struggle with handwriting as adults. I have tried and tried to perfect my signature, under the guidance of a teacher who never once said it was good. Oh, she said I made significant improvement, but every time I would practice my signature she had at least one thing to say about a few of the letters. It's frustrating, to say the least, although several people have told me I write my signature more neatly than most sighted people. Still, if something like the Opticon were still widely available, I wonder if this problem would be erradicated? I was also told by a family member that I'm illiterate because I can't handwrite. While this person has backed off a bit upon seeing my recent signatures, she still says that I should be able to write proficiently both in cursive and in print, because everyone else does. Her biggest problem with the public school I attended was not with the fact I experienced a huge amount of bullying at the hands of both teachers and students, but that I wasn't taught handwriting at the same time as my sighted peers. Sorry for that little rant, but hearing something like that all my life just makes me wish I had access to something like the Opticon. Perhaps then I wouldn't have been accused of being illiterate.
You're not illiterate. whomever said that just needs to examine their own lives and get their accusatory nose out of yours. O, and they need to look up the definition of illiteracy while they're at it, too, because if you can write in general, it really doesn't matter how.
O, and hells Child, I'm not even going to bother attempting to debate your burden comment, because if you can't see how someone who sits here complaining, while not doing anything about their admited lack of mobility skills is a burden on their sighted peers who then are forced to help them, , you obviously don't have any idea how people can be a burden in the first place. if these sighted peers are honestly okay with that, then they've accepted that burden, and everything's all fine and dandy, but it's still a burden.
I learned both ways to sign my name and chose the printed version. Who told you that is silly, and you really don't need that expensive tool to learn letters? You can buy some ABC blocks at any toy store for 5 bucks. It doesn't read cursive, or however that is spelled. Lol
Here's my view on keeping it simple: There are, in rare instances, mainstream trends that have compromised accessibility. I say compromise because these things can be worked around with a little creativity and common sense. The most obvious one that comes to my mind are flat top stoves. I'm appalled that that's what the general public wants; howwever, if a day were to come when I absolutely had to buy one, I would do it. I'm certainly not going to have a gas stove installed, because that has a whole host of expenses and problems that I don't need. But there's definitely a frustration factor as I've just had to adjust to using a flat top stove since my parents had to buy one. Ours finally crapped out after almost 20 years of use. Honestly, I hate it, and I wish that had never happened so that I could keep using the same method of making sure pots and pans are centered on the burner that I've gotten used to. So, I can definitely sympathize with how older tech can be more accessible than newer tech. It's not impossible to adapt, though, and if I must, I will.
Also, I too am fascinated by old technology to a certain extent, particularly music technology. I'm a record collector; I've gotten my face ripped off about that a couple times on here previously concerning my views on that, but then again I was a bit younger and more immature then too, but anyway, it's just one of my hobbies. I love my mp3's as much as the next person. I can take them anywhere with me. But when I want to relax, or I want to get the most out of a listening experience, I go for my vinyl. There's just something comforting about it. While I idolize tapes to a much lesser extent, the history itself fascinates me. In the early 90's, when CD's were just getting off the ground, digital tape players were actually introduced that had features of both cassettes and CD's. The tapes themselves had the functionality of being able to quickly find the song you wanted, just as you would on a CD. This technology never really took off; I've never seen such a thing, but I read about it. I would like to see it, just for curiosity's sake and because it fascinates me. Just the same, I've never seen a reel-to-reel tape player, and would love to just so I would know what it's like. Another thing that holds my interest is the progression from the gramophone to shellac records to vinyl to tapes to CD'S and now primarily digital formats. Tapes, while they provide portability and ease of use, are far too breakable. Same with CD's. I don't care what anyone says, I hate the damn things. They get scratched too easily, and become so easily damaged by a single scratch that often whole portions of the disk are rendered unplayable. vinyl, while inherently easier to scratch, doesn't usually suffer such dire consequences for it; more surface noise, perhaps, and more groove wear over time, but that's inevitable no matter how well you take care of them. My point being, preferences are fine, as long as you can separate them from idealism. I draw the line in 2 places on this matter: when people refuse to accept that everyone is an individual capable of having their own thoughts, opinions and preferences, especially in the blind community (there's a board topic buried somewhere called "Bigotry of Ideas: a Horrible Perceived Habit Among Us" which makes this blatantly obvious), and when, as I stated, one can't understand why others believe as they do. I realize, as I'm typing this, that many, if not most, people will disagree with me, saying I'm clinging to outdated technology for stupid reasons, especially since I'm really too young to grasp the full impact of it, but I've grown so accustomed to hearing this that I don't care. Furthermore, as I've matured, I've realized that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that just because I hold one that's perceived to be different or strange just because it's in the minority doesn't mean it's right or wrong; it is what it is. So, while you or I may not agree with everything the original post is illustrating, we should be a little bit more open-minded about it, realizing that everyone has their own life experiences that cause them to be who they are today. There was a time when I was threatened whenever someone would bash my opinion; this was mostly due to my insecurities rather than the arguments I tried to hide behind, but at the end of the day I still felt the same way about my record collection because I put a lot of money and effort to keep it in as good of shape as I can and to expand it. This is my hobby; DOS is Eleni's hobby. Take it or leave it.
We must have posted at the same time. I was told that signing your name in print is pointless because anyone can forge it and that cursive is unique to you. I don't understand how that can be, having never seen, but I've already invested so much time in learning cursive that I'm not going to reinvent the wheel if you know what I mean. My signature now is passable, I just wish that there was a reliable way for blind people to paint an accurate picture of something so complex as printed letters if you've never been able to see them.
Being curious/fascinated with old, outdated technology is one thing. I, too, would spend all day in museums or other places where you can find these things, just looking at it. If you honestly think this kind of technology works better for you, then go right ahead. Where I draw the line is when people say that most modern technology is crap because it's all just too complicated. Ever since I started using a flattop stove, cleanup has been a breeze, and I've adjusted to the new way of centering the pots and pans. Personally, I'd never go back, but that's just me. My suggestion to everyone is to use whatever kind of technology you like, but keep an open mind about what else is out there and how different people have different methods. don't say digital is too complicated simply because one or two of your experiences with it have been complicated. By the same token, if a piece of older tech proves to be simpler to use than its modern counterpart, then there's no reason why you shouldn't use it.
That's true. And while I'm wary of touch screens for the simple fact I prefer buttons, if a day ever comes when I have no choice but to use one, I'll do it without complaining. However, as long as there's still choice, I prefer not to go and buy an IPhone. Is using Mobile Speak slower? Probably. But it works for me. That bar code scanning stuff sounds cool to me, and it's a serious consideration now that I know about it, but it's still not quite enough for me to take the plunge. As for flat top stoves, I know I'll get used to it because, again, I have to. I don't necessarily like it, but I'm also not going to whine and complain just because I can either.
That misconception about touch screens has been shattered for me as well. However, I totally respect your not wanting to use one if what you have works for you, since you're also not complaining about it, and would get used to one if you had to.
FireAndRain. If you wish to see some on the recording items you posted about call some pawn shops and ask if they have them. Another great way is to call a professional recording studio in your city and ask the tech if you could come in during down time to touch these items. They'd love to show you.